Summary
Aside from the national Python conferences such as PyCon US and EuroPyCon there are a number of regional conferences that operate at a smaller scale to service their local communities. This week we interviewed Peter McCormick and Francis Deslauriers about their work organizing PyCon Canada to provide a venue for Canadians to talk about how they are using the language. If you happen to be near Toronto in November then you should get a ticket and help contribute to their success!
Brief Introduction
- Hello and welcome to Podcast.__init__, the podcast about Python and the people who make it great.
- I would like to thank everyone who has donated to the show. Your contributions help us make the show sustainable. For details on how to support the show you can visit our site at pythonpodcast.com
- Linode is sponsoring us this week. Check them out at linode.com/podcastinit and get a $20 credit to try out their fast and reliable Linux virtual servers for your next project
- We are also sponsored by Sentry this week. Stop hoping your users will report bugs. Sentry’s real-time tracking gives you insight into production deployments and information to reproduce and fix crashes. Check them out at getsentry.com and use the code podcastinit at signup to get a $50 credit!
- Hired has also returned as a sponsor this week. If you’re looking for a job as a developer or designer then Hired will bring the opportunities to you. Sign up at hired.com/podcastinit to double your signing bonus.
- Visit our site to subscribe to our show, sign up for our newsletter, read the show notes, and get in touch.
- To help other people find the show you can leave a review on iTunes, or Google Play Music, and tell your friends and co-workers
- Join our community! Visit discourse.pythonpodcast.com for your opportunity to find out about upcoming guests, suggest questions, and propose show ideas.
- Your hosts as usual are Tobias Macey and Chris Patti
- Today we’re interviewing Peter McCormick and Francis Deslauriers about their experiences organizing PyCon Canada
Interview with Peter McCormick and Francis Deslauriers
- Introductions
- How did you get introduced to Python? – Chris
- How did you get involved as an organizer of PyCon Canada? – Tobias
- How does PyCon Canada, and other regional conferences, differ from PyCon US, both in terms of scale and overall experience? – Tobias
- How do the audience and presenters differ from the US conferences? Is there perhaps a differen mix of industry versus academia, or maybe different disciplines? Chris
- Are you thinking of trying to hold the conference in different cities across Canada, similarly to how PyCon US moves venues every two years? – Tobias
- In addition to the national and regional conferences, there are a number of special interest Python conferences that take place (e.g. SciPy, PyData, etc.). What kind of relationship do you have with organizers of those events and how do they impact the kinds of talk submissions that you are likely to receive? – Tobias
- There has been a lot of focus in recent years on trying to increase the diversity of conference speakers. What are some of the methods that you have used to encourage speakers of various backgrounds to submit talks? – Tobias
- Organizing a conference involves a lot of moving parts. How do you structure the process to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience for the attendees? – Tobias
- What are some of the biggest logistical challenges you face as conference organizers? – Chris
- Given that PyCon Canada is a regional conference, how has that affected your focus in terms of marketing and the general theme? – Tobias
- Tell our listeners about your favorite PyCon Canada moments. – Chris
- What has been the most surprising part of organizing the conference? – Tobias
Keep In Touch
- PyCon Canada
- Peter
- Francis
Picks
- Tobias
- Chris
- Peter
- Francis
Links
The intro and outro music is from Requiem for a Fish The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
[00:00:14]
Unknown:
Hello, and welcome to podcast. Init, the podcast about Python and the people who make it great. I would like to thank everyone who has donated to the show. Your contributions help us make the show sustainable. Linode is sponsoring us this week. Check them out at linode.com/podcastinit and get a $20 credit to try out their fast and reliable Linux virtual servers for your next project. We are also sponsored by Sentry this week. Stop hoping your users will report bugs. Sentry's real time tracking gives you insight into production deployments and information to reproduce and fix crashes. Check them out at getsentry.com, and use the code podcast init@signup to get a $50 credit.
Hired has also returned as a sponsor this week. If you're looking for a job as a developer or designer, then Hired will bring the opportunities to you. Sign up at hired.com/podcastinit to double your signing bonus. You can also visit our site to subscribe to our show, sign up for our newsletter, read the show notes, and get in touch. And to help other people find the show, you can leave a review on iTunes or Google Play Music and tell your friends and coworkers. And last, you can also join our community at discourse.pythonpodcast.com for your opportunity to find out about upcoming guests, suggest questions, and propose show ideas.
We also have a couple of giveaways going on right now. So from last week's episode, Michael Kennedy is giving away 1 of each of his online courses. So if you sign up for our newsletter or our discourse forum or both at pythonpodcast.com, then you can be entered for a chance to win. And we also have a ticket to Velocity New York, the O'Reilly conference to give away. So go ahead and sign up for that as well. And your host as usual are Tobias Macey and Chris Patti. And today, we're interviewing Peter McCormack and Francis Delaurier about their experiences organizing PyCon Canada. So, Peter, why don't you start by introducing yourself?
[00:01:53] Unknown:
Hi, everybody. My name is Peter, and I am 1 of the organizers of PyCon Canada. I was first involved in the conference in its 1st year in 2012. And in 2015 last year, I came on board as the chair to, just help see the conference keep on going.
[00:02:09] Unknown:
And I'm Francis Valle, and, so I'm a grad student at University of Toronto. And so I got onboard in Python Canada last year with Peter.
[00:02:19] Unknown:
So, Francis, how did you get introduced to Python?
[00:02:22] Unknown:
So, actually, it started during my undergrad. So first first time I really used Python for a project was a during our undergrad class, CPU architecture class. And we were building a some part of a CPU and we had some part of the assignment was to to write a small program with opcodes that RCP were would interpret afterwards. And, basically, the last part of the assignment was to write a program for it. And it was really a long task. Like, you had to consider all the offset and everything. So what I did is just basically write a Python assembler. So we we had this pseudo assembly code that we would pipe into this this Python script that would create all the up codes for for our programs. So that was really the first, like, project for a really low level problem. And, yeah, really, that's that's the first time I really use Python.
[00:03:12] Unknown:
Peter, how about you? How did you get introduced to Python?
[00:03:16] Unknown:
I remember around the time I used to do a lot of PHP type work, web development. And there came a point in time when I was starting to use this is maybe in the early 2000. I was starting PHP for actual daemon processes, long running, scripts and services. And at least at that time, PHP wasn't wasn't really set up to do that as well, as perhaps it is now. And I just sort of was reaching around for some other tools, and I started to essentially just write Python, the way it just came out as pseudo code and that happened to be executable. So I don't even really remember what that process looked like. It just sort of was like 1 day I reached for it and it was there. And, I definitely appreciate just how expressive Python is like that.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
And if you could tell us how you each got involved in the process of organizing PyCon Canada and also maybe a little bit about how PyCon Canada got its start. Sure.
[00:04:07] Unknown:
Python Canada, the 1st year that this conference was put on was in 2012. And right around that time, it was understood that PyCon US, the sort of the big national conference, would be occurring actually outside of the US for the first time in 2014 and 2015. The Python Software Foundation sort of is always planning a few years ahead, and they typically will, sort of put the conference, PyCon US Conference, in a city for 2 years. So as around 2012, they actually knew that they were going to be coming to Montreal, in sort of 2 years hence. So the original set of organizers, folks like Diana Clark, Dave Wolover, Mike Di Bernardo, Tabby Burns, they basically wanted to sort of help get the Canadian community ready for what would be PyCon US by holding essentially kind of a warm up exercise.
Get some organizers together, get some excitement going. So in that 1st year in 2012, I was not an organizer. I simply, my I was a volunteer, and I helped out with the AV side of things. I, again, did that in 2013 when they did another year. And then in that 2014, 2015 years, there was PyCon US in Montreal, sort of slightly. Maybe Python North America, you might call it. At that point in time, the first PyCon US I ever attended was actually, the 2015 1 in Montreal. And around that time, I was talking with some of those folks, in Montreal and saying, you know, guys, this has been such a great experience. I've really enjoyed just that whole PyCon experience myself.
Let's do another PyCon Canada. Is anybody interested? And, the the answer to them was from them was essentially, that's a great idea, Peter. Why don't you go do it? And so I sort of took on that mantle, and, about 6 months later, Picon Canada 2015 happened, which which was the 3rd Picon Canada conference to happen.
[00:05:59] Unknown:
And for me, basically, after Peter got back from Montreal, so we were working together at the time. And, so he asked me, so, Francis, do you wanna wanna help out? Like, we need someone to translate, the website. So Canada is bilingual country, so we wanted the website and all the signage to be bilingual. So, yeah, I said I said, yeah. Yeah. Sure. I can do that. That's easy. And then started doing that and then picking more tasks, and then I ended up managing the sponsorship effort, for the conference last year. And, yeah, that that's all I get involved in, like, taking tasks here and there for for the organization.
[00:06:36] Unknown:
How do the audience and presenters differ from the US conferences? Is there perhaps a different mix of industry and academia or or, different disciplines?
[00:06:47] Unknown:
I wouldn't say that there's a different mix. We've had that that PACCAR Canada has been held in the past in Toronto. Obviously, there's a lot of university. So PhD students, researchers are presenting their work, more academia stuff. But we we've been having a wide range of topics, both research related and just related and just obvious in general. So I wouldn't expect that the mix is really different.
[00:07:11] Unknown:
Yeah. I I would, say that, quite a few Americans actually come up to, to attend Picon Canada. So in that sense, there's some definitely some familiar faces among speakers and attendees. But really, in essence, it's it's a local crowd of folks, for whom just that the the the fact that it's in a big city, but their hometown is sort of something that makes it easier for them. But it is still, yeah, very similar mix of a range of companies, our sponsors, students, academics, folks who you might not, traditionally or they might not describe themselves as programmers, but nonetheless, they program, they're in data science, things of that nature.
[00:07:50] Unknown:
And you were saying how you kind of fell into the role of the conference organizer, which I know from speaking with other people who have been in that position that it is a much larger job than it at first seems to be. So I'm wondering how well you've weathered under that mantle and, if you ever have any second thoughts about having, assumed it in the first place. I can definitely say that, again, my my first PyCon US was the 2015 1 in Montreal.
[00:08:18] Unknown:
That really was for me, it was a very special experience. PyCon, I've not that I'm a long time member, but I definitely felt sort of embraced by the community. It's a very warm group of people, very friendly, very welcoming, and I I really found that to be kind of an inspiring experience. And that definitely, put me into the role or set me down the path. I would say I've never I've never regretted doing, being the chair in 2015, and I'm very excited about, reprising that role again this year. And and really that comes down to not just my own involvement, but it's the people that I've met through it. So working with people like Francis, we've got a great group of, core organizers here in Toronto, and others who are patched in remotely.
And it's been a great group of people to get to know, to work closely with, and although sometimes, you know, in in the midst of juggling the rest of life, we're all volunteers. Midst of juggling work and academic studies and whatnot, it it can get a little bit busy and has gotten busy at times. But definitely 2015, the conference went well, and that was a a real very satisfying experience. I would definitely say I don't regret it. And I'm excited to actually to see it continue and and and, more people get involved with it.
[00:09:30] Unknown:
So you're mentioning that it's being held in Toronto. Have you considered having it move around to different cities in Canada similarly to how the PyCon US conference shifts around every couple of years?
[00:09:42] Unknown:
We are absolutely, like, trying to just view the work related to the organization of the conference. So obviously some things related to the the organization don't really need to be in Toronto or in the city where it's held, like emails, Twitter, like, end of communication and stuff. So we're trying to to, find people outside of the city to help out on this. And and ex for example, right now, we this year, we are hoping to distribute the entire CFP process, try to find people in other cities wanting to wanting to help out on reviewing reviewing proposals, getting feedback to speakers, and just so that we are not really dependent on the crowd, in the city where it's held.
Hopefully, we would like to to see it move around, but right now the knowledge is kind of concentrated in, in Toronto. So but we're trying to distribute this this task as we we organize.
[00:10:37] Unknown:
Add to that, 1 of the things that 1 of the processes that we're we're trying to figure out is in what way, so PyCon Canada, we're hoping to, we fall into that banner of PyCon. That's it's a rich heritage, and we hope, you know, just to, to be good stewards of that name, certainly. And we're also trying to figure out what this conference should change to accommodate, Canada as a country, as a community, just as a different, setting for an event like this. So 1 exam 1 difference, for example, with between, PyCon Canada and the US, obviously, is that, for example, domestic travel in Canada is typically more expensive than in the US, partly because we have about a tenth of the population.
So just even flights, coast to coast or between the major cities, they're more spread apart. There's less population density, fewer flights, more expense. That's not that's not always the case. That wouldn't necessarily deter all folks. But that's 1 of those areas where we haven't yet, sort of bridged the gap to move around different cities. But it but if we do, and and we'd love to build the community up to that point, we it may not look exactly like the way the Python US, conference works. So we don't know. This is still very much early days and we would definitely love to partner with, Python user groups and, communities in other parts of the country. And, really, this is a process that we're that we're just trying to make those relationships and figure out what it is, quote, we can do to make the we a bigger group than just those of us who are in this 1 particular geographic area.
[00:12:12] Unknown:
And I know that at the most recent US PyCon, Brandon Rhodes, as he was closing out the conference, was commenting on the fact that as PyCon US continues to happen every year, more and more people would like to attend. And they're reaching the scale where they have to decide whether to continue to limit the number of people who can attend and keep the overall experience a little bit more personal or take it up to the next level and be operating at the scale similar to some of the O'Reilly conferences where all of a sudden the venues get bigger, the tickets get more expensive, and the entire sense of the community aspect changes.
So what he was suggesting is that they want to keep it at a smaller scale and start encouraging more people to splinter off their own more regional PyCons, which is something that you guys are working towards.
[00:13:08] Unknown:
If I can just say, the PSF, the Python Software Foundation, is very is wonderful about their level of support. Last year, they were 1 of our sponsors. They helped us, with a financial contribution at a at a critical time. They really helped us sort of kick start and and cover some of the early costs before sort of ticket sales and whatnot came on. And, yeah, I was really encouraged to hear that this past year. And 1 other thing I'll mention that was sort of a last minute organization thing that we did in Portland actually was we held an open space for I think the title was essentially regional conference organizers. And that was, a great chance for me to to meet I met some of the folks who are organizing some of the other regional conferences there in the US, PyGotham, PyOhio, the DjangoCon folks.
And I I wonder I wonder if we're beginning to see this process where the the PSF is sort of they've sort of said that they want to, help these groups happen. There's a lot of groups doing great work, and maybe we can begin to figure out how to work together or just even share knowledge, sort of share experiences, help help new folks get started. And that to me is a really encouraging step and definitely something I I think we can we love to help everyone wherever they may be, whether it's in Canada or the US or internationally. But, yeah, I found that that was a really interesting direction that they sort of signaled.
[00:14:27] Unknown:
And in addition to the national and regional conferences, there are also a number of special interest Python conferences such as SciPy, PyData, DjangoCon, etcetera. And I'm wondering what kind of relationship you have with the organizers of of those events, which you alluded to a little bit, but also how the presence of those different special interest conferences affects the kinds of talk submissions that you're likely to receive and the the number of people who have talk submissions and who also decide to attend the more general regional conferences where versus some of the more specialist conferences?
[00:15:02] Unknown:
Yes. So we we see ourselves more like a general interest fund conference, as you said. We're like, with wide range of topics. So our goal is really that both expert, like, ex experimented programmers and newcomers can learn. And, so it's kind of finding the sweet spot where both of these, 2 extreme can can both appreciate the the experience. And so, as we said earlier, like, we received talks for both scientific background, really technical, all the way to some act I did in my garage, and it's really cool. So the idea is, like, to be to be really open to all sort of, talks and projects like this.
[00:15:46] Unknown:
Yes. I would definitely say that, those conferences that are more, focused are are wonderful because they they will bring in, you know, local experts or they'll bring in, you know, the the the author of a given project, and you will and you can really get sort of the top notch straight straight from the source type of information. And I I think at least the Python Canada, we found last year that we were really happy to see that really broad range of talks, ranging from someone just getting excited, saying this is something I hacked together and it's kind of a a neat application of Python or novel. All as well as the sort of here's, you know, some good information related to web frameworks and, sort of very popular packages. So we're happy to have a range.
And I would also say that in the midst of that, 1 of the mandates we really feel is, that first time speakers, we really want to encourage them and welcome them. And, if anything, give them a form to maybe get their feet wet, get their so may perhaps the first experience with, you know, speaking at a conference. And if that's something we can facilitate, and participate in as organizers and as attendees, that's really 1 of our, what we wanna see the the community grow those skill sets and give people the opportunity to grow their own skills.
[00:17:01] Unknown:
That that leads really nicely into another question I had about the fact that in recent years, there's been a pretty strong focus on trying to increase the diversity of conference speakers. And so you mentioned the fact that you are explicitly trying to encourage first time speakers to submit talks. But I'm wondering if there are any other methods that you've employed to try and increase the range of backgrounds and diversity
[00:17:23] Unknown:
the of the speakers who are actually submitting. 1 thing that we tried last year that I I think went well, and we're gonna do it again this year, is actually we have an explicit, talk duration that is that we schedule that is just 10 minutes. So a 10 minute talk, our feeling is that so this differs even from a 5 minute lightning talk, the kind that you might attend the conference, sign up for in the morning, and give sometime in the afternoon, maybe, you know, prepare some slides in the afternoon. So our thinking behind this idea of a 10 minute talk is I I honestly believe in my heart that anyone could, give a sort of a 10 minute story, 10 minute this is something I'm experiencing or I'm just learning. And our hope is that something like this or or aspects of our organization like this can really give people who, perhaps might not feel like they they are they want to take that step up to a conference, level talk or maybe they have some trepidation that this can sort of be a great way to still experience the full process. You still submit a talk proposal. You still get review. You are scheduled. You are, you know, entitled formally, stated. You are a a full speaker at the conference, and yet a 10 minute talk is very manageable.
So that's something that we found last year. We definitely, I think, got a some talks that, gave that that kind of first timer chance and perhaps for some, get over an initial, inhibition, if there if any existed. And another thing we're hoping to do this year, again, in terms of trying to build that feedback, give people, not just the opportunity to, but really trying to welcome them in and give them every chance we can to help them succeed. It's something we're hoping to do this year, is actually provide some mentorship, to speakers, to whatever your skill level might be. We're hoping to pair up if if someone's interested in this, maybe a more experienced speaker or somebody who, just can be a sounding board and give you some feedback on your talk, you know, in advance of the conference, to help you, maybe, give a dry run of it, give you some feedback on the content just to help speakers feel really comfortable giving the talk, being really confident that they're gonna they're gonna do great. They're gonna do a great job.
And so these are things that we're trying, and we're trying to see what works. And, some of obviously, mentoring, will require, a certain amount of volunteer help on the mentor side. So we definitely need help there. But we're hoping that these sorts of things can help make this conference accessible to folks who, again, otherwise wouldn't feel welcome. And we're gonna be doing our best as much as we can to really promote them, promote these, these characteristics, and try to reach out and let people know that not just that you're welcome, but that we really want you to, we believe in you, and we really think you're gonna do a great job. Please come join us.
[00:20:04] Unknown:
And have you also considered employing a blind review process where the talk submissions are looked at only in terms of the content and you actually strip out the any of the name or identifying characteristics of the person submitting it?
[00:20:19] Unknown:
Last year, our review process was, it was a little bit low tech. It was actual well, still high-tech, I suppose. But it was actually just a Google form. This year, we're trying to, use Symposium, which is a Django project that is the proposal submission talk review process. We're still in the process of sort of customizing and tweaking a little bit. And just at the time that we're having this conversation, we just opened our CFP. And in about, 1 month, that'll close, and then we'll sort of enter into that review process. And and this these are 1 of those customizations. I'm not sure exactly, if if that option, you know, exists currently in that software, But it it's that kind of thing, absolutely, that we'd, I know I'd I'd read that recently that there'd been, let's say, a positive result when you can just kinda focus on the content irrespective of all others. And and absolutely, yep, that's something we're considering.
[00:21:07] Unknown:
Yeah. I've read in a couple of places that that's 1 of the techniques used to try and remove implicit biases in the acceptance process. Mhmm. And that that can help a lot in terms of Mhmm. The rate of talks that are actually that that that make it through for people who are of different backgrounds.
[00:21:25] Unknown:
Whether somebody is a first time speaker or they wanna give a talk on, let's say, a a more general interest topic or, you know, something maybe that they wouldn't otherwise feel like this is something that a technical conference would want, we absolutely do want those, talks, and we would love to see those types of submissions. And so, I think I think truthfully, when if we see things like that, we're gonna get excited by them, and very likely try to get the speakers to to speak.
[00:21:50] Unknown:
That's excellent to hear. So organizing a conference involves a lot of different moving parts. I'm wondering how you structure the overall process to ensure that there's a safe and enjoyable experience for the attendees and for the organizers and the conference staff as well.
[00:22:06] Unknown:
So I I think 1 of the key part here is, like, you have to know what are what you need to be done, what needs to to, what needs to be done, and then you need to distribute. And you have to make sure that, like, nothing, is missed and, yeah, and just make sure that everybody has something to do, and and no piece of work is, left by itself. I think that's the main the main part.
[00:22:27] Unknown:
I know as an organizer myself and sort of looking out over the the team of organizers, we're all volunteers. We all have, day jobs and and other things that, require our attention. And yet, there's a lot of folks who are willing to help. And there there's a beautiful thing there where a lot of good natured people, they wanna help. They're willing to put their time in. A lot of different skills coming to bear. And I know definitely a task I continue to try to do is find how to get people plugged into some area, and then really kind of delegate, give them responsibility, support as well, of course, so no one's, off on their own or sort of feeling the full weight of it, hopefully.
But definitely make sure that there's a team strategy so that, things aren't falling through the cracks. So that each area of the conference we've thought about that we're sort of taking, due care. We're really thinking through things. We're thinking through the attendee experience, and the experience of all the the volunteers who will show up, all the speakers, and and definitely a lot of moving parts. And it takes a bit of finessing, and it certainly gets busy as as we approach the date. But definitely, the overall goal, absolutely, is we wanna have a very safe, fun, enjoyable experience.
And anything we can do to improve that, we we certainly always try to do and, always looking, for ways to improve.
[00:23:45] Unknown:
So what are some of the biggest logistical challenges that you've encountered as conference organizers?
[00:23:51] Unknown:
So I would say that a big challenge is to figure out the order in which things need to get done because there's no real point of, like, for example, ordering T shirts if you don't know how many people are gonna attend or same thing for so it really is it's understanding that what are the dependencies across all the tasks that you have to to do to so first thing first is find your venue, and this will give you dates. This will give you capacity and and all sort of things that depends on it. So I think the biggest challenge is is figuring out just those tasks and just work through them.
[00:24:27] Unknown:
Going back to the just that point of the the volunteer organizers aspect is as as much as possible, we try to, I mean, we all have sort of things floating around in our heads. So we know that, oh, at some point, that needs to get done. And it is the the the trick, I suppose, is how do you record that kind of information? And how do you tie it into sort of the prerequisites so that you know that you need to order t shirts? And there's some point in time when, you know, there'll be a there'll be a lead time on the t shirt, and you have to sell them. And so there's so many issues even around something like a t shirt sale. And it's you can't think about that all the time, but you definitely just sort of get that up on a board or, you know, Google Drive or Slack channels, some something very persistent, and just juggle it. And that also then ties into if a newcomer is coming on board.
If somebody wants to jump in and is willing to tackle something, it's how do you sort of present some of these, some of these to do items to them in a way that they can sort of get up to speed on on what has to happen.
[00:25:27] Unknown:
So, you know, I I guess, part of the reason I asked this question is I I used to be a Ruby fan before I discovered the bright white light that is Python. And I we had a a a local Boston area conference, a couple of years ago that was really successful and really great. And then, like, it just petered out. And and among the problems cited were things like difficulties with gauging the amount of hotel required and huge advance payments required by the hotel, and they gauge the amount of people traveling incorrectly. And, like, it it was just this whole thing where, like, fiscally, it just didn't work out anymore. So I guess that's kinda what I'm wondering is were there, like, were there financial challenges or other sort of, like, resource reservation or prediction challenges?
[00:26:18] Unknown:
I was given some great advice by James Powell. Don't use this code. He gave me sort of a a checklist, which I I feel was very valuable. I'll give you the the the first item. The first item on this list was sort of a question is what is your definition of success for an event? And the first 1, I think has to be, and I agree with this, don't let your organizers get burned out. Now this, I mean, that doesn't relate to speakers, that doesn't relate to attendees. The thing is, among a group of organizers, good natured, good hearted people who are willing to give their time, you know, unseen, for for months before some event, That's a precious resource. And it's always possible to put on an event and maybe trample on people or sort of just presume their time and and take too much of it.
And if you do that, you might get sort of a the 1 big event out of that. I'm not saying that happened in this in this case, but just it's possible. So to me, there's always this question of what is sustainable for the group you have? And it's under what is the what are the the nonnegotiables? Right? If you're gonna have a conference, okay, so you need a venue. You need a date. But there's there's all sorts of ways that even as we look to larger conferences, and even this applies to us because we're, even by our geographic limitations, we have sort of upper bounds on our size. You can look to the larger conferences and say they're doing these sort of 50 different options, like wonderful or initiatives or add ons.
And yet each 1 of those is only possible because they have, you know, great group of volunteers, and it's a larger scope and scale. So we need to at each step in each step in this organization process, if we're gonna commit to something so we mentioned their hotels. In the case of last year and and what we're planning for this year, we we will we will not do what PikeCon US does, which is they have so many attendees that they will book out sort of a big block of hotels. And, you know, then sort of maybe perhaps so they resell them to an attendee. And that makes sense may when you're large size and you're sort of have a big conference center, we do not do that. And certainly at our current scale, we will not do that. Although that might then push some of that organizational challenge of getting hotel and whatnot onto to our attendees, the fact is we don't have the organizer capacity to do that. And in in terms of the hierarchy of where to add value, and in terms of how to utilize the organizer's time that we do have, that would be somewhere lower on the list. So the thing I would really say is, again, if you're gonna plan for an event, realize that you don't have to go sort of the completely numb route. Right? We can definitely we all take an inspiration from the large conferences that are very well organized and have, very sophisticated, and sort of, good institutional knowledge of how to sort of run a complex event. And in this case, well, Python Canada, just about all the organizers, from last year and again this year, we're this is only our 2nd year as organizers. So we're still learning a lot, and we're only gonna bite off what is reasonable for us to, to sort of take a chunk out of.
[00:29:17] Unknown:
That's very smart and very sustainable. Right? Like, that is the, I mean, that is the the the sort of, like, overwhelming revelation that this industry has been going through recently is keep it sustainable. Right? Like, no matter what you're doing, whether it's volunteering for a community or open source project or even trying to be successful in your job, the way you do that is to be measured and sustainable in your work and not, like, you know, yeah. Okay. Great. Just because you can push yourself to work 15 hour days, you know, doesn't mean you should necessarily. It's not it's not even in your not not even just in your best interest. It's not in the best interest of your employer or the conference you're organizing or whatever.
[00:29:59] Unknown:
I know my goal is not just to sort of be a part of 1 great year. I would love to see it in the case of PyCon Canada. I would love to see the different organizers, a part of this effort, continue to be a part of it. I like I love to see them sort of stay energized, over maybe a longer period of time. Not that they have to be, of course, life circumstances can change. But I know that certain we burn them out in 1 year. A, probably they might just leave. Right? They're they're volunteers. They don't have to do anything. But, certainly, I think that would be a disservice to the community if we sort of ground people into the ground or even tried to do that. And ultimately, that would detract, from the experience of the organizers who themselves are also attendees. And so my hope is that by kind of having that mentality at the top and and be and trying to bring in new people, for whatever level of commitment they're willing to make, my hope is that we can make, really be laying the foundation for something more sustainable.
And that's still an ongoing process, and we'll have to see kind of year over year how that goes and how different people are have time in in some particular season that they won't have in a later season, and that's sort of a natural growing cycle. But we're still early days, and we, I have to say we love help. So please, if you'd be interested in joining us, please, we'd love to have you.
[00:31:15] Unknown:
Given that Python Canada is at least currently more of a regional conference, how has that affected your focus and the efforts you put into marketing it and the general theme of the overall conference?
[00:31:28] Unknown:
I think I would have to say, I felt very fortunate that last year when, when we're able to get a group of organizers together, the community really responded. They responded, through sort of excitement, you know, the social media and feedback and whatnot. They responded in terms of, submitting talks and and just kind of giving us the material to actually put the conference on. They responded by, you know, buying tickets and coming out. Sponsors responded in a really big way. And so I I was very humbled by that, that there's definitely seem to be, a desire for this kind of event, and and we were just sort of doing our best to serve that. In terms of marketing, in some sense, this there's a there there's some magic here that I'm not even quite sure what it is. My hope is that it's it's something about the Python community, and and the sort of warmth and welcomeness that people are perhaps being attracted to. And I hope we're doing justice to that. In terms of marketing, I'm I'm not even quite sure that we have specific, you know, themes or angles to take, other than just trying to do justice and and sort of logistically put on a good event. And so, yeah, I think the the focus is essentially just trying to make it happen again.
[00:32:37] Unknown:
Tell our listeners about your favorite PyCon Canada moments.
[00:32:41] Unknown:
For me personally, there there's 2 things. First of all, like, the day of the first day of the stress of the, like, making everything is in place, making sure that registration desk is in place, everybody's is ready to to receive everyone. And secondly, like, the last day or or the end of the day where everybody seems happy with the event and really, really successful event is really satisfying for me. That that will be a perfect moment by con
[00:33:09] Unknown:
Yeah. There's there's definitely, an excitement when you're sort of seeing a lot of people come together, people stepping up saying, hey. Can I volunteer? What can I do? And and sort of just I I was amazed last year in 2015. The number of things that were happening that I had no idea about. And in a good sense that, like, other people were were taking responsibility for them, really owning those areas. Probably my favorite memory was in our very first 1 of my favorite memories. In the very first year, 2012, PyCon Canada was held in sort of a local, community center. And I was I rented and brought the AV equipment to set up the sound systems. And because we were gonna have sort of a lot of speakers plugged in and projectors and laptops, you know, daisy chained way too many times, we needed to check which circuits the actual outlets were attached to. So we had this sort of convoluted system where some people were upstairs on the second story, plugging stuff in or plugging cable testers into the wall.
Other people were downstairs in an electrical room, switching off circuit breakers and kinda radio radioing back to say sort of what turned off when I turned this thing off. And the circuit breaker itself, they were labeled in Polish, and and so we need to find somebody who could just help us understand you. Are we turning off the air conditioning? Are we turning off something else? And yet that was again just a group of people who, I didn't even plan for that even though I was sort of trying to organize that. But people just jumped in and said, hey. What can I do to help? Sure. You know, give me the tester. I'll go over here. We'll draw a map. We'll sort of figure how to keep all the lights on. And that to me is the essence of that sort of community spirit. The people are just coming together, willing to pitch in to make it happen. And I'm I'm very grateful to be a part of that.
[00:34:43] Unknown:
Very cool. It's it's kind of funny how people tend to use, you know, what's needed to keep the lights on as a metaphorical
[00:34:49] Unknown:
device. In your case, it will. Yeah. I mean, I've been in situations where you sort of, like, you turn up the sound system and then someone plugs in a laptop, and then, you know, all the lights go out. And so you you wanna try to you wanna try to avoid that just for con continuity.
[00:35:01] Unknown:
Right. It is kind of both amusing and a little frightening that AV seems to be, like, 1 of the hardest ongoing problems in modern computer science. Right?
[00:35:13] Unknown:
Yeah. Naming things off by 1 errors. And,
[00:35:16] Unknown:
I got AV and projectors. Right? Exactly.
[00:35:21] Unknown:
And what has been the most surprising part of organizing the conference for each of you?
[00:35:27] Unknown:
So, so something that's kinda funny. So kinda realized that last year when we were, at the end of the c s CFP, we we really realized that we need to remind people of stuff. So we are working really hard on on the the organization. So we talk about it every day. We we think about it every day, and so everything is in our mind. And we kinda assume that everybody that receives our email about the event, about the CFP knows everything and remembers everything. And it's kind of a realization that, no, people forget and people, like, don't read entire emails, and and that's that's okay. And you just have to remember remember, them, basically. And, yeah, that was kind of funny realization of, like, don't assume that everybody knows what you know about even though you told them.
[00:36:13] Unknown:
I'm just amazed. The case of 2015, I'm amazed that it happened. And I say that in in a good way that, I was amazed that so many great people, again, were willing to come and give talks. Attendees were willing to come. Organizers were willing to put in their time. It it was actually about 6 months almost to the day that, I essentially sort of signed on for the role of of of trying to steer the ship to when the actual conference happened. And if I had known sort of, you know, the month before or earlier in the process what was going to come, you know, I I I mean, it'd be it'd be hard to say.
Sort of sometimes you have to go into these things not knowing what's going to come, and that's how you just sort of push through it. But just the fact that it happens, the fact that there's so many folks, again, willing to step up in in a 1,000 and 1 different ways, and someone seen, some seen. That to me is something very special about this whole community, the whole, atmosphere. And, that's something I would just wanna keep on sharing with as many people as I can.
[00:37:10] Unknown:
So you mentioned it briefly towards the beginning of the show. But for anybody who is interested in attending this year's PyCon Canada, what are the dates? Do do you still need any sponsors? What what what are the what are the critical bits of information that people need to know to be able to come and attend it?
[00:37:26] Unknown:
Absolutely. Thank you. The dates for the conference, the main, 2 days will be a Saturday, Sunday, November 12th, and November 13, 2016, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The tickets will be going on sale probably, either late September or early October, and we're definitely we're at the time we're chatting now, late July up until, the end of August is the call for proposals period. So we definitely love to see submissions from everyone, and we're gonna be trying to get the word out about that. Sponsors are an integral part of of making these events possible. They help keep cost low, cost of tickets low, enables to give away tickets, bring in folks who couldn't otherwise make it. So absolutely would be interested in sponsors. Just please get in touch with us, through our website, picon.ca, or, send us a message via Twitter at piconca.
[00:38:18] Unknown:
Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you think we should have, or any other topics you'd like to bring up before we close out the show?
[00:38:25] Unknown:
I think I would I would love to just plug, this general phenomenon of regional conferences. Many of your listeners, I'm sure, you know, would not come to PIECON Canada, and that's that's fine just as it relates to the geography. But in the case of the US, I know there's a lot of great regional groups, that are either based on a meetup or put on a conference. I I can think of some. I noticed Pygothan recently had, their event. And I would just encourage everyone to to see if something like that is in your area. If if that interests you, get involved. I know organizers, they're working hard. They want, nothing but good things for you. And if if you had the time and if you had the interest in helping them out, I know they would, love to, love to have you help them out, whether it be conferences, like, actual conference events or your regional meetups. I really just encourage folks to realize that these things are community organized.
You know, by and large, these are volunteer run. And so it really comes down to people helping out. And so whether you're in let's say that's either Canada or the US, whether in other parts of the world, if you're interested in running something, yourself and getting something started in your country or your town, even please reach out to me. I'd be happy to try to give you pointers or sort of point you in the right direction. I really say it's eminently doable. Even a simple 1 day, 1 track, 1 event thing is absolutely doable, with a a small group of organizers, and the results of which can just really be wonderful for the community, yourself, your experience. And I encourage everyone to get involved somehow.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
And for people who are looking to find out about some of those regional conferences, I know that the Python Software Foundation website has a calendar of events that you can look to for finding any regional conferences that might happen to be closer to your neck of the woods. And I'll add a link to that in the show notes. So for anybody who wants to follow what you guys are up to and keep in touch, what would be the best way for them to do that? Peter, how about you go first?
[00:40:22] Unknown:
You could follow me on Twitter at pdmccormick, m c c or m I c k, or follow the conference at PyCon CA.
[00:40:31] Unknown:
And, Francis, how about you? And on Twitter,
[00:40:34] Unknown:
I'm at Francis, d e s l a u r. So that's Twitter. Yeah. And, yeah, so the picon c picon c on Twitter for for our group. And for potential sponsors, it's sponsorship@picon.ca. That's that would be the best way to reach us.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
Great. So with that, I will move us on into the picks. And my first pick this week is the Juice SSH Android application. So I work as a DevOps engineer for for my day job, and that involves being able to SSH into a lot of different servers. And I actually use SaltStack as my systems automation tool. So lately, I really only have the need to SSH into 1 server to be able to do everything I need. And having Deuce SSH handy on my tablet has proven helpful quite a number of times in the past few weeks. So I definitely wanna pick that because it's a pretty great SSH client. The paid version has a bunch of features like being able to hook into your EC 2 account so that it'll automatically pull in all of the nodes that you have there so you can SSH into them. And I'll leave it at that for this week. So, Chris, what do you have? That's very cool. Being able to use instance name sounds really, really handy. Gee, my iOS SSH client doesn't do that. I'm gonna have to make a feature request.
[00:41:52] Unknown:
So my first pick is a French trip hop group called Chinese Man. It's just really great sort of, like, you know, textural, lots of samples, really great lyrics, really interesting. Just love it. Go give it a listen. The next pick is a an urban fantasy book by Daniel O'Malley called Stiletto. I was a huge fan of his first book in the series called Rook, and this new 1 is just delicious. It's like it's the kind of book that I I picked up and started reading, and I'm like, I'm already halfway through it. I feel like I just started. So, if you like urban fantasy, this is basically a group called the Checkee, which is responsible for anything supernatural happening in Britain. And it's just it's really, really good stuff. My final pick for the day is the Amazon Echo. I bought 1, and I totally dig this thing. So we, you know, we listen to a lot of music around my house, and and I like to hear the news and things like that. And having something where you can just basically say, you know, Alexa, play blah blah blah, and have it just play is pure magic or listening to my morning news briefing while I do my exercises or whatever the case may be. And it plays podcasts, and it's it's just this really great surprisingly, it's it's an incredible utilitarian device in the category of the kind of thing that you didn't know would make your life measurably better until you have 1. And that's it for me for
[00:43:25] Unknown:
picks. So, Peter, how about you? I'll just give 1 shout out, something I just learned about, actually, at PyCon US. If anyone is interested in putting on an event but just can't kinda quite start thinking in terms of what has to happen, I love to direct people to the Jengocon US conference, has done a great job of putting together just a series of notes, documentation essentially of how they run their events. I found them really useful even for myself just to sort of remember, essentially lists of, a checklist of sort of what sorts of things need to be on your mind, if you're trying to organize something. And so if anyone's interested in organizing something, and just needs to kinda get their mind rooted, so what is some of the first items or what kinds of to dos might I, be assigning to volunteers, I definitely recommend people check that out. Github.com/jangocon/jangocon dash us dash doc.
[00:44:20] Unknown:
I find it rather unsurprising that a community organized around a project that is so well known for its documentation happens to have such great documentation for its conferences.
[00:44:31] Unknown:
And and what a gift to the community. Just to say that, you know, these folks have a lot of experience, and they've really kinda put it out there for all of us.
[00:44:38] Unknown:
And, Francis, what do you have for picks? So I have 1 pick is, Brian Scripps' book, Spamination. So I'm currently listening to the the audiobook, and I really love it. So it's a it's a book about, it's a study on how, cyber criminals are working and how spammers are working. It's really interesting to to understand how the actors are interacting with each other and, yeah, who who play what who plays what role. Really, really insightful.
[00:45:05] Unknown:
Francis, if you enjoyed that book, you might really like the Risky Business podcast. They interview Brian Krebs on a regular basis, and it's a great podcast. It's really entertaining.
[00:45:15] Unknown:
Oh, thank you. I'll look it up for sure. Sure.
[00:45:19] Unknown:
Well, I really appreciate the both of you taking time out of your day to join us and tell us more about the work you're doing with PyCon Canada, and perhaps I'll even be able to make it up this year. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much, Tobias. And thank you, Chris. Have a good night. Good night.
Hello, and welcome to podcast. Init, the podcast about Python and the people who make it great. I would like to thank everyone who has donated to the show. Your contributions help us make the show sustainable. Linode is sponsoring us this week. Check them out at linode.com/podcastinit and get a $20 credit to try out their fast and reliable Linux virtual servers for your next project. We are also sponsored by Sentry this week. Stop hoping your users will report bugs. Sentry's real time tracking gives you insight into production deployments and information to reproduce and fix crashes. Check them out at getsentry.com, and use the code podcast init@signup to get a $50 credit.
Hired has also returned as a sponsor this week. If you're looking for a job as a developer or designer, then Hired will bring the opportunities to you. Sign up at hired.com/podcastinit to double your signing bonus. You can also visit our site to subscribe to our show, sign up for our newsletter, read the show notes, and get in touch. And to help other people find the show, you can leave a review on iTunes or Google Play Music and tell your friends and coworkers. And last, you can also join our community at discourse.pythonpodcast.com for your opportunity to find out about upcoming guests, suggest questions, and propose show ideas.
We also have a couple of giveaways going on right now. So from last week's episode, Michael Kennedy is giving away 1 of each of his online courses. So if you sign up for our newsletter or our discourse forum or both at pythonpodcast.com, then you can be entered for a chance to win. And we also have a ticket to Velocity New York, the O'Reilly conference to give away. So go ahead and sign up for that as well. And your host as usual are Tobias Macey and Chris Patti. And today, we're interviewing Peter McCormack and Francis Delaurier about their experiences organizing PyCon Canada. So, Peter, why don't you start by introducing yourself?
[00:01:53] Unknown:
Hi, everybody. My name is Peter, and I am 1 of the organizers of PyCon Canada. I was first involved in the conference in its 1st year in 2012. And in 2015 last year, I came on board as the chair to, just help see the conference keep on going.
[00:02:09] Unknown:
And I'm Francis Valle, and, so I'm a grad student at University of Toronto. And so I got onboard in Python Canada last year with Peter.
[00:02:19] Unknown:
So, Francis, how did you get introduced to Python?
[00:02:22] Unknown:
So, actually, it started during my undergrad. So first first time I really used Python for a project was a during our undergrad class, CPU architecture class. And we were building a some part of a CPU and we had some part of the assignment was to to write a small program with opcodes that RCP were would interpret afterwards. And, basically, the last part of the assignment was to write a program for it. And it was really a long task. Like, you had to consider all the offset and everything. So what I did is just basically write a Python assembler. So we we had this pseudo assembly code that we would pipe into this this Python script that would create all the up codes for for our programs. So that was really the first, like, project for a really low level problem. And, yeah, really, that's that's the first time I really use Python.
[00:03:12] Unknown:
Peter, how about you? How did you get introduced to Python?
[00:03:16] Unknown:
I remember around the time I used to do a lot of PHP type work, web development. And there came a point in time when I was starting to use this is maybe in the early 2000. I was starting PHP for actual daemon processes, long running, scripts and services. And at least at that time, PHP wasn't wasn't really set up to do that as well, as perhaps it is now. And I just sort of was reaching around for some other tools, and I started to essentially just write Python, the way it just came out as pseudo code and that happened to be executable. So I don't even really remember what that process looked like. It just sort of was like 1 day I reached for it and it was there. And, I definitely appreciate just how expressive Python is like that.
[00:03:56] Unknown:
And if you could tell us how you each got involved in the process of organizing PyCon Canada and also maybe a little bit about how PyCon Canada got its start. Sure.
[00:04:07] Unknown:
Python Canada, the 1st year that this conference was put on was in 2012. And right around that time, it was understood that PyCon US, the sort of the big national conference, would be occurring actually outside of the US for the first time in 2014 and 2015. The Python Software Foundation sort of is always planning a few years ahead, and they typically will, sort of put the conference, PyCon US Conference, in a city for 2 years. So as around 2012, they actually knew that they were going to be coming to Montreal, in sort of 2 years hence. So the original set of organizers, folks like Diana Clark, Dave Wolover, Mike Di Bernardo, Tabby Burns, they basically wanted to sort of help get the Canadian community ready for what would be PyCon US by holding essentially kind of a warm up exercise.
Get some organizers together, get some excitement going. So in that 1st year in 2012, I was not an organizer. I simply, my I was a volunteer, and I helped out with the AV side of things. I, again, did that in 2013 when they did another year. And then in that 2014, 2015 years, there was PyCon US in Montreal, sort of slightly. Maybe Python North America, you might call it. At that point in time, the first PyCon US I ever attended was actually, the 2015 1 in Montreal. And around that time, I was talking with some of those folks, in Montreal and saying, you know, guys, this has been such a great experience. I've really enjoyed just that whole PyCon experience myself.
Let's do another PyCon Canada. Is anybody interested? And, the the answer to them was from them was essentially, that's a great idea, Peter. Why don't you go do it? And so I sort of took on that mantle, and, about 6 months later, Picon Canada 2015 happened, which which was the 3rd Picon Canada conference to happen.
[00:05:59] Unknown:
And for me, basically, after Peter got back from Montreal, so we were working together at the time. And, so he asked me, so, Francis, do you wanna wanna help out? Like, we need someone to translate, the website. So Canada is bilingual country, so we wanted the website and all the signage to be bilingual. So, yeah, I said I said, yeah. Yeah. Sure. I can do that. That's easy. And then started doing that and then picking more tasks, and then I ended up managing the sponsorship effort, for the conference last year. And, yeah, that that's all I get involved in, like, taking tasks here and there for for the organization.
[00:06:36] Unknown:
How do the audience and presenters differ from the US conferences? Is there perhaps a different mix of industry and academia or or, different disciplines?
[00:06:47] Unknown:
I wouldn't say that there's a different mix. We've had that that PACCAR Canada has been held in the past in Toronto. Obviously, there's a lot of university. So PhD students, researchers are presenting their work, more academia stuff. But we we've been having a wide range of topics, both research related and just related and just obvious in general. So I wouldn't expect that the mix is really different.
[00:07:11] Unknown:
Yeah. I I would, say that, quite a few Americans actually come up to, to attend Picon Canada. So in that sense, there's some definitely some familiar faces among speakers and attendees. But really, in essence, it's it's a local crowd of folks, for whom just that the the the fact that it's in a big city, but their hometown is sort of something that makes it easier for them. But it is still, yeah, very similar mix of a range of companies, our sponsors, students, academics, folks who you might not, traditionally or they might not describe themselves as programmers, but nonetheless, they program, they're in data science, things of that nature.
[00:07:50] Unknown:
And you were saying how you kind of fell into the role of the conference organizer, which I know from speaking with other people who have been in that position that it is a much larger job than it at first seems to be. So I'm wondering how well you've weathered under that mantle and, if you ever have any second thoughts about having, assumed it in the first place. I can definitely say that, again, my my first PyCon US was the 2015 1 in Montreal.
[00:08:18] Unknown:
That really was for me, it was a very special experience. PyCon, I've not that I'm a long time member, but I definitely felt sort of embraced by the community. It's a very warm group of people, very friendly, very welcoming, and I I really found that to be kind of an inspiring experience. And that definitely, put me into the role or set me down the path. I would say I've never I've never regretted doing, being the chair in 2015, and I'm very excited about, reprising that role again this year. And and really that comes down to not just my own involvement, but it's the people that I've met through it. So working with people like Francis, we've got a great group of, core organizers here in Toronto, and others who are patched in remotely.
And it's been a great group of people to get to know, to work closely with, and although sometimes, you know, in in the midst of juggling the rest of life, we're all volunteers. Midst of juggling work and academic studies and whatnot, it it can get a little bit busy and has gotten busy at times. But definitely 2015, the conference went well, and that was a a real very satisfying experience. I would definitely say I don't regret it. And I'm excited to actually to see it continue and and and, more people get involved with it.
[00:09:30] Unknown:
So you're mentioning that it's being held in Toronto. Have you considered having it move around to different cities in Canada similarly to how the PyCon US conference shifts around every couple of years?
[00:09:42] Unknown:
We are absolutely, like, trying to just view the work related to the organization of the conference. So obviously some things related to the the organization don't really need to be in Toronto or in the city where it's held, like emails, Twitter, like, end of communication and stuff. So we're trying to to, find people outside of the city to help out on this. And and ex for example, right now, we this year, we are hoping to distribute the entire CFP process, try to find people in other cities wanting to wanting to help out on reviewing reviewing proposals, getting feedback to speakers, and just so that we are not really dependent on the crowd, in the city where it's held.
Hopefully, we would like to to see it move around, but right now the knowledge is kind of concentrated in, in Toronto. So but we're trying to distribute this this task as we we organize.
[00:10:37] Unknown:
Add to that, 1 of the things that 1 of the processes that we're we're trying to figure out is in what way, so PyCon Canada, we're hoping to, we fall into that banner of PyCon. That's it's a rich heritage, and we hope, you know, just to, to be good stewards of that name, certainly. And we're also trying to figure out what this conference should change to accommodate, Canada as a country, as a community, just as a different, setting for an event like this. So 1 exam 1 difference, for example, with between, PyCon Canada and the US, obviously, is that, for example, domestic travel in Canada is typically more expensive than in the US, partly because we have about a tenth of the population.
So just even flights, coast to coast or between the major cities, they're more spread apart. There's less population density, fewer flights, more expense. That's not that's not always the case. That wouldn't necessarily deter all folks. But that's 1 of those areas where we haven't yet, sort of bridged the gap to move around different cities. But it but if we do, and and we'd love to build the community up to that point, we it may not look exactly like the way the Python US, conference works. So we don't know. This is still very much early days and we would definitely love to partner with, Python user groups and, communities in other parts of the country. And, really, this is a process that we're that we're just trying to make those relationships and figure out what it is, quote, we can do to make the we a bigger group than just those of us who are in this 1 particular geographic area.
[00:12:12] Unknown:
And I know that at the most recent US PyCon, Brandon Rhodes, as he was closing out the conference, was commenting on the fact that as PyCon US continues to happen every year, more and more people would like to attend. And they're reaching the scale where they have to decide whether to continue to limit the number of people who can attend and keep the overall experience a little bit more personal or take it up to the next level and be operating at the scale similar to some of the O'Reilly conferences where all of a sudden the venues get bigger, the tickets get more expensive, and the entire sense of the community aspect changes.
So what he was suggesting is that they want to keep it at a smaller scale and start encouraging more people to splinter off their own more regional PyCons, which is something that you guys are working towards.
[00:13:08] Unknown:
If I can just say, the PSF, the Python Software Foundation, is very is wonderful about their level of support. Last year, they were 1 of our sponsors. They helped us, with a financial contribution at a at a critical time. They really helped us sort of kick start and and cover some of the early costs before sort of ticket sales and whatnot came on. And, yeah, I was really encouraged to hear that this past year. And 1 other thing I'll mention that was sort of a last minute organization thing that we did in Portland actually was we held an open space for I think the title was essentially regional conference organizers. And that was, a great chance for me to to meet I met some of the folks who are organizing some of the other regional conferences there in the US, PyGotham, PyOhio, the DjangoCon folks.
And I I wonder I wonder if we're beginning to see this process where the the PSF is sort of they've sort of said that they want to, help these groups happen. There's a lot of groups doing great work, and maybe we can begin to figure out how to work together or just even share knowledge, sort of share experiences, help help new folks get started. And that to me is a really encouraging step and definitely something I I think we can we love to help everyone wherever they may be, whether it's in Canada or the US or internationally. But, yeah, I found that that was a really interesting direction that they sort of signaled.
[00:14:27] Unknown:
And in addition to the national and regional conferences, there are also a number of special interest Python conferences such as SciPy, PyData, DjangoCon, etcetera. And I'm wondering what kind of relationship you have with the organizers of of those events, which you alluded to a little bit, but also how the presence of those different special interest conferences affects the kinds of talk submissions that you're likely to receive and the the number of people who have talk submissions and who also decide to attend the more general regional conferences where versus some of the more specialist conferences?
[00:15:02] Unknown:
Yes. So we we see ourselves more like a general interest fund conference, as you said. We're like, with wide range of topics. So our goal is really that both expert, like, ex experimented programmers and newcomers can learn. And, so it's kind of finding the sweet spot where both of these, 2 extreme can can both appreciate the the experience. And so, as we said earlier, like, we received talks for both scientific background, really technical, all the way to some act I did in my garage, and it's really cool. So the idea is, like, to be to be really open to all sort of, talks and projects like this.
[00:15:46] Unknown:
Yes. I would definitely say that, those conferences that are more, focused are are wonderful because they they will bring in, you know, local experts or they'll bring in, you know, the the the author of a given project, and you will and you can really get sort of the top notch straight straight from the source type of information. And I I think at least the Python Canada, we found last year that we were really happy to see that really broad range of talks, ranging from someone just getting excited, saying this is something I hacked together and it's kind of a a neat application of Python or novel. All as well as the sort of here's, you know, some good information related to web frameworks and, sort of very popular packages. So we're happy to have a range.
And I would also say that in the midst of that, 1 of the mandates we really feel is, that first time speakers, we really want to encourage them and welcome them. And, if anything, give them a form to maybe get their feet wet, get their so may perhaps the first experience with, you know, speaking at a conference. And if that's something we can facilitate, and participate in as organizers and as attendees, that's really 1 of our, what we wanna see the the community grow those skill sets and give people the opportunity to grow their own skills.
[00:17:01] Unknown:
That that leads really nicely into another question I had about the fact that in recent years, there's been a pretty strong focus on trying to increase the diversity of conference speakers. And so you mentioned the fact that you are explicitly trying to encourage first time speakers to submit talks. But I'm wondering if there are any other methods that you've employed to try and increase the range of backgrounds and diversity
[00:17:23] Unknown:
the of the speakers who are actually submitting. 1 thing that we tried last year that I I think went well, and we're gonna do it again this year, is actually we have an explicit, talk duration that is that we schedule that is just 10 minutes. So a 10 minute talk, our feeling is that so this differs even from a 5 minute lightning talk, the kind that you might attend the conference, sign up for in the morning, and give sometime in the afternoon, maybe, you know, prepare some slides in the afternoon. So our thinking behind this idea of a 10 minute talk is I I honestly believe in my heart that anyone could, give a sort of a 10 minute story, 10 minute this is something I'm experiencing or I'm just learning. And our hope is that something like this or or aspects of our organization like this can really give people who, perhaps might not feel like they they are they want to take that step up to a conference, level talk or maybe they have some trepidation that this can sort of be a great way to still experience the full process. You still submit a talk proposal. You still get review. You are scheduled. You are, you know, entitled formally, stated. You are a a full speaker at the conference, and yet a 10 minute talk is very manageable.
So that's something that we found last year. We definitely, I think, got a some talks that, gave that that kind of first timer chance and perhaps for some, get over an initial, inhibition, if there if any existed. And another thing we're hoping to do this year, again, in terms of trying to build that feedback, give people, not just the opportunity to, but really trying to welcome them in and give them every chance we can to help them succeed. It's something we're hoping to do this year, is actually provide some mentorship, to speakers, to whatever your skill level might be. We're hoping to pair up if if someone's interested in this, maybe a more experienced speaker or somebody who, just can be a sounding board and give you some feedback on your talk, you know, in advance of the conference, to help you, maybe, give a dry run of it, give you some feedback on the content just to help speakers feel really comfortable giving the talk, being really confident that they're gonna they're gonna do great. They're gonna do a great job.
And so these are things that we're trying, and we're trying to see what works. And, some of obviously, mentoring, will require, a certain amount of volunteer help on the mentor side. So we definitely need help there. But we're hoping that these sorts of things can help make this conference accessible to folks who, again, otherwise wouldn't feel welcome. And we're gonna be doing our best as much as we can to really promote them, promote these, these characteristics, and try to reach out and let people know that not just that you're welcome, but that we really want you to, we believe in you, and we really think you're gonna do a great job. Please come join us.
[00:20:04] Unknown:
And have you also considered employing a blind review process where the talk submissions are looked at only in terms of the content and you actually strip out the any of the name or identifying characteristics of the person submitting it?
[00:20:19] Unknown:
Last year, our review process was, it was a little bit low tech. It was actual well, still high-tech, I suppose. But it was actually just a Google form. This year, we're trying to, use Symposium, which is a Django project that is the proposal submission talk review process. We're still in the process of sort of customizing and tweaking a little bit. And just at the time that we're having this conversation, we just opened our CFP. And in about, 1 month, that'll close, and then we'll sort of enter into that review process. And and this these are 1 of those customizations. I'm not sure exactly, if if that option, you know, exists currently in that software, But it it's that kind of thing, absolutely, that we'd, I know I'd I'd read that recently that there'd been, let's say, a positive result when you can just kinda focus on the content irrespective of all others. And and absolutely, yep, that's something we're considering.
[00:21:07] Unknown:
Yeah. I've read in a couple of places that that's 1 of the techniques used to try and remove implicit biases in the acceptance process. Mhmm. And that that can help a lot in terms of Mhmm. The rate of talks that are actually that that that make it through for people who are of different backgrounds.
[00:21:25] Unknown:
Whether somebody is a first time speaker or they wanna give a talk on, let's say, a a more general interest topic or, you know, something maybe that they wouldn't otherwise feel like this is something that a technical conference would want, we absolutely do want those, talks, and we would love to see those types of submissions. And so, I think I think truthfully, when if we see things like that, we're gonna get excited by them, and very likely try to get the speakers to to speak.
[00:21:50] Unknown:
That's excellent to hear. So organizing a conference involves a lot of different moving parts. I'm wondering how you structure the overall process to ensure that there's a safe and enjoyable experience for the attendees and for the organizers and the conference staff as well.
[00:22:06] Unknown:
So I I think 1 of the key part here is, like, you have to know what are what you need to be done, what needs to to, what needs to be done, and then you need to distribute. And you have to make sure that, like, nothing, is missed and, yeah, and just make sure that everybody has something to do, and and no piece of work is, left by itself. I think that's the main the main part.
[00:22:27] Unknown:
I know as an organizer myself and sort of looking out over the the team of organizers, we're all volunteers. We all have, day jobs and and other things that, require our attention. And yet, there's a lot of folks who are willing to help. And there there's a beautiful thing there where a lot of good natured people, they wanna help. They're willing to put their time in. A lot of different skills coming to bear. And I know definitely a task I continue to try to do is find how to get people plugged into some area, and then really kind of delegate, give them responsibility, support as well, of course, so no one's, off on their own or sort of feeling the full weight of it, hopefully.
But definitely make sure that there's a team strategy so that, things aren't falling through the cracks. So that each area of the conference we've thought about that we're sort of taking, due care. We're really thinking through things. We're thinking through the attendee experience, and the experience of all the the volunteers who will show up, all the speakers, and and definitely a lot of moving parts. And it takes a bit of finessing, and it certainly gets busy as as we approach the date. But definitely, the overall goal, absolutely, is we wanna have a very safe, fun, enjoyable experience.
And anything we can do to improve that, we we certainly always try to do and, always looking, for ways to improve.
[00:23:45] Unknown:
So what are some of the biggest logistical challenges that you've encountered as conference organizers?
[00:23:51] Unknown:
So I would say that a big challenge is to figure out the order in which things need to get done because there's no real point of, like, for example, ordering T shirts if you don't know how many people are gonna attend or same thing for so it really is it's understanding that what are the dependencies across all the tasks that you have to to do to so first thing first is find your venue, and this will give you dates. This will give you capacity and and all sort of things that depends on it. So I think the biggest challenge is is figuring out just those tasks and just work through them.
[00:24:27] Unknown:
Going back to the just that point of the the volunteer organizers aspect is as as much as possible, we try to, I mean, we all have sort of things floating around in our heads. So we know that, oh, at some point, that needs to get done. And it is the the the trick, I suppose, is how do you record that kind of information? And how do you tie it into sort of the prerequisites so that you know that you need to order t shirts? And there's some point in time when, you know, there'll be a there'll be a lead time on the t shirt, and you have to sell them. And so there's so many issues even around something like a t shirt sale. And it's you can't think about that all the time, but you definitely just sort of get that up on a board or, you know, Google Drive or Slack channels, some something very persistent, and just juggle it. And that also then ties into if a newcomer is coming on board.
If somebody wants to jump in and is willing to tackle something, it's how do you sort of present some of these, some of these to do items to them in a way that they can sort of get up to speed on on what has to happen.
[00:25:27] Unknown:
So, you know, I I guess, part of the reason I asked this question is I I used to be a Ruby fan before I discovered the bright white light that is Python. And I we had a a a local Boston area conference, a couple of years ago that was really successful and really great. And then, like, it just petered out. And and among the problems cited were things like difficulties with gauging the amount of hotel required and huge advance payments required by the hotel, and they gauge the amount of people traveling incorrectly. And, like, it it was just this whole thing where, like, fiscally, it just didn't work out anymore. So I guess that's kinda what I'm wondering is were there, like, were there financial challenges or other sort of, like, resource reservation or prediction challenges?
[00:26:18] Unknown:
I was given some great advice by James Powell. Don't use this code. He gave me sort of a a checklist, which I I feel was very valuable. I'll give you the the the first item. The first item on this list was sort of a question is what is your definition of success for an event? And the first 1, I think has to be, and I agree with this, don't let your organizers get burned out. Now this, I mean, that doesn't relate to speakers, that doesn't relate to attendees. The thing is, among a group of organizers, good natured, good hearted people who are willing to give their time, you know, unseen, for for months before some event, That's a precious resource. And it's always possible to put on an event and maybe trample on people or sort of just presume their time and and take too much of it.
And if you do that, you might get sort of a the 1 big event out of that. I'm not saying that happened in this in this case, but just it's possible. So to me, there's always this question of what is sustainable for the group you have? And it's under what is the what are the the nonnegotiables? Right? If you're gonna have a conference, okay, so you need a venue. You need a date. But there's there's all sorts of ways that even as we look to larger conferences, and even this applies to us because we're, even by our geographic limitations, we have sort of upper bounds on our size. You can look to the larger conferences and say they're doing these sort of 50 different options, like wonderful or initiatives or add ons.
And yet each 1 of those is only possible because they have, you know, great group of volunteers, and it's a larger scope and scale. So we need to at each step in each step in this organization process, if we're gonna commit to something so we mentioned their hotels. In the case of last year and and what we're planning for this year, we we will we will not do what PikeCon US does, which is they have so many attendees that they will book out sort of a big block of hotels. And, you know, then sort of maybe perhaps so they resell them to an attendee. And that makes sense may when you're large size and you're sort of have a big conference center, we do not do that. And certainly at our current scale, we will not do that. Although that might then push some of that organizational challenge of getting hotel and whatnot onto to our attendees, the fact is we don't have the organizer capacity to do that. And in in terms of the hierarchy of where to add value, and in terms of how to utilize the organizer's time that we do have, that would be somewhere lower on the list. So the thing I would really say is, again, if you're gonna plan for an event, realize that you don't have to go sort of the completely numb route. Right? We can definitely we all take an inspiration from the large conferences that are very well organized and have, very sophisticated, and sort of, good institutional knowledge of how to sort of run a complex event. And in this case, well, Python Canada, just about all the organizers, from last year and again this year, we're this is only our 2nd year as organizers. So we're still learning a lot, and we're only gonna bite off what is reasonable for us to, to sort of take a chunk out of.
[00:29:17] Unknown:
That's very smart and very sustainable. Right? Like, that is the, I mean, that is the the the sort of, like, overwhelming revelation that this industry has been going through recently is keep it sustainable. Right? Like, no matter what you're doing, whether it's volunteering for a community or open source project or even trying to be successful in your job, the way you do that is to be measured and sustainable in your work and not, like, you know, yeah. Okay. Great. Just because you can push yourself to work 15 hour days, you know, doesn't mean you should necessarily. It's not it's not even in your not not even just in your best interest. It's not in the best interest of your employer or the conference you're organizing or whatever.
[00:29:59] Unknown:
I know my goal is not just to sort of be a part of 1 great year. I would love to see it in the case of PyCon Canada. I would love to see the different organizers, a part of this effort, continue to be a part of it. I like I love to see them sort of stay energized, over maybe a longer period of time. Not that they have to be, of course, life circumstances can change. But I know that certain we burn them out in 1 year. A, probably they might just leave. Right? They're they're volunteers. They don't have to do anything. But, certainly, I think that would be a disservice to the community if we sort of ground people into the ground or even tried to do that. And ultimately, that would detract, from the experience of the organizers who themselves are also attendees. And so my hope is that by kind of having that mentality at the top and and be and trying to bring in new people, for whatever level of commitment they're willing to make, my hope is that we can make, really be laying the foundation for something more sustainable.
And that's still an ongoing process, and we'll have to see kind of year over year how that goes and how different people are have time in in some particular season that they won't have in a later season, and that's sort of a natural growing cycle. But we're still early days, and we, I have to say we love help. So please, if you'd be interested in joining us, please, we'd love to have you.
[00:31:15] Unknown:
Given that Python Canada is at least currently more of a regional conference, how has that affected your focus and the efforts you put into marketing it and the general theme of the overall conference?
[00:31:28] Unknown:
I think I would have to say, I felt very fortunate that last year when, when we're able to get a group of organizers together, the community really responded. They responded, through sort of excitement, you know, the social media and feedback and whatnot. They responded in terms of, submitting talks and and just kind of giving us the material to actually put the conference on. They responded by, you know, buying tickets and coming out. Sponsors responded in a really big way. And so I I was very humbled by that, that there's definitely seem to be, a desire for this kind of event, and and we were just sort of doing our best to serve that. In terms of marketing, in some sense, this there's a there there's some magic here that I'm not even quite sure what it is. My hope is that it's it's something about the Python community, and and the sort of warmth and welcomeness that people are perhaps being attracted to. And I hope we're doing justice to that. In terms of marketing, I'm I'm not even quite sure that we have specific, you know, themes or angles to take, other than just trying to do justice and and sort of logistically put on a good event. And so, yeah, I think the the focus is essentially just trying to make it happen again.
[00:32:37] Unknown:
Tell our listeners about your favorite PyCon Canada moments.
[00:32:41] Unknown:
For me personally, there there's 2 things. First of all, like, the day of the first day of the stress of the, like, making everything is in place, making sure that registration desk is in place, everybody's is ready to to receive everyone. And secondly, like, the last day or or the end of the day where everybody seems happy with the event and really, really successful event is really satisfying for me. That that will be a perfect moment by con
[00:33:09] Unknown:
Yeah. There's there's definitely, an excitement when you're sort of seeing a lot of people come together, people stepping up saying, hey. Can I volunteer? What can I do? And and sort of just I I was amazed last year in 2015. The number of things that were happening that I had no idea about. And in a good sense that, like, other people were were taking responsibility for them, really owning those areas. Probably my favorite memory was in our very first 1 of my favorite memories. In the very first year, 2012, PyCon Canada was held in sort of a local, community center. And I was I rented and brought the AV equipment to set up the sound systems. And because we were gonna have sort of a lot of speakers plugged in and projectors and laptops, you know, daisy chained way too many times, we needed to check which circuits the actual outlets were attached to. So we had this sort of convoluted system where some people were upstairs on the second story, plugging stuff in or plugging cable testers into the wall.
Other people were downstairs in an electrical room, switching off circuit breakers and kinda radio radioing back to say sort of what turned off when I turned this thing off. And the circuit breaker itself, they were labeled in Polish, and and so we need to find somebody who could just help us understand you. Are we turning off the air conditioning? Are we turning off something else? And yet that was again just a group of people who, I didn't even plan for that even though I was sort of trying to organize that. But people just jumped in and said, hey. What can I do to help? Sure. You know, give me the tester. I'll go over here. We'll draw a map. We'll sort of figure how to keep all the lights on. And that to me is the essence of that sort of community spirit. The people are just coming together, willing to pitch in to make it happen. And I'm I'm very grateful to be a part of that.
[00:34:43] Unknown:
Very cool. It's it's kind of funny how people tend to use, you know, what's needed to keep the lights on as a metaphorical
[00:34:49] Unknown:
device. In your case, it will. Yeah. I mean, I've been in situations where you sort of, like, you turn up the sound system and then someone plugs in a laptop, and then, you know, all the lights go out. And so you you wanna try to you wanna try to avoid that just for con continuity.
[00:35:01] Unknown:
Right. It is kind of both amusing and a little frightening that AV seems to be, like, 1 of the hardest ongoing problems in modern computer science. Right?
[00:35:13] Unknown:
Yeah. Naming things off by 1 errors. And,
[00:35:16] Unknown:
I got AV and projectors. Right? Exactly.
[00:35:21] Unknown:
And what has been the most surprising part of organizing the conference for each of you?
[00:35:27] Unknown:
So, so something that's kinda funny. So kinda realized that last year when we were, at the end of the c s CFP, we we really realized that we need to remind people of stuff. So we are working really hard on on the the organization. So we talk about it every day. We we think about it every day, and so everything is in our mind. And we kinda assume that everybody that receives our email about the event, about the CFP knows everything and remembers everything. And it's kind of a realization that, no, people forget and people, like, don't read entire emails, and and that's that's okay. And you just have to remember remember, them, basically. And, yeah, that was kind of funny realization of, like, don't assume that everybody knows what you know about even though you told them.
[00:36:13] Unknown:
I'm just amazed. The case of 2015, I'm amazed that it happened. And I say that in in a good way that, I was amazed that so many great people, again, were willing to come and give talks. Attendees were willing to come. Organizers were willing to put in their time. It it was actually about 6 months almost to the day that, I essentially sort of signed on for the role of of of trying to steer the ship to when the actual conference happened. And if I had known sort of, you know, the month before or earlier in the process what was going to come, you know, I I I mean, it'd be it'd be hard to say.
Sort of sometimes you have to go into these things not knowing what's going to come, and that's how you just sort of push through it. But just the fact that it happens, the fact that there's so many folks, again, willing to step up in in a 1,000 and 1 different ways, and someone seen, some seen. That to me is something very special about this whole community, the whole, atmosphere. And, that's something I would just wanna keep on sharing with as many people as I can.
[00:37:10] Unknown:
So you mentioned it briefly towards the beginning of the show. But for anybody who is interested in attending this year's PyCon Canada, what are the dates? Do do you still need any sponsors? What what what are the what are the critical bits of information that people need to know to be able to come and attend it?
[00:37:26] Unknown:
Absolutely. Thank you. The dates for the conference, the main, 2 days will be a Saturday, Sunday, November 12th, and November 13, 2016, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The tickets will be going on sale probably, either late September or early October, and we're definitely we're at the time we're chatting now, late July up until, the end of August is the call for proposals period. So we definitely love to see submissions from everyone, and we're gonna be trying to get the word out about that. Sponsors are an integral part of of making these events possible. They help keep cost low, cost of tickets low, enables to give away tickets, bring in folks who couldn't otherwise make it. So absolutely would be interested in sponsors. Just please get in touch with us, through our website, picon.ca, or, send us a message via Twitter at piconca.
[00:38:18] Unknown:
Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you think we should have, or any other topics you'd like to bring up before we close out the show?
[00:38:25] Unknown:
I think I would I would love to just plug, this general phenomenon of regional conferences. Many of your listeners, I'm sure, you know, would not come to PIECON Canada, and that's that's fine just as it relates to the geography. But in the case of the US, I know there's a lot of great regional groups, that are either based on a meetup or put on a conference. I I can think of some. I noticed Pygothan recently had, their event. And I would just encourage everyone to to see if something like that is in your area. If if that interests you, get involved. I know organizers, they're working hard. They want, nothing but good things for you. And if if you had the time and if you had the interest in helping them out, I know they would, love to, love to have you help them out, whether it be conferences, like, actual conference events or your regional meetups. I really just encourage folks to realize that these things are community organized.
You know, by and large, these are volunteer run. And so it really comes down to people helping out. And so whether you're in let's say that's either Canada or the US, whether in other parts of the world, if you're interested in running something, yourself and getting something started in your country or your town, even please reach out to me. I'd be happy to try to give you pointers or sort of point you in the right direction. I really say it's eminently doable. Even a simple 1 day, 1 track, 1 event thing is absolutely doable, with a a small group of organizers, and the results of which can just really be wonderful for the community, yourself, your experience. And I encourage everyone to get involved somehow.
[00:39:56] Unknown:
And for people who are looking to find out about some of those regional conferences, I know that the Python Software Foundation website has a calendar of events that you can look to for finding any regional conferences that might happen to be closer to your neck of the woods. And I'll add a link to that in the show notes. So for anybody who wants to follow what you guys are up to and keep in touch, what would be the best way for them to do that? Peter, how about you go first?
[00:40:22] Unknown:
You could follow me on Twitter at pdmccormick, m c c or m I c k, or follow the conference at PyCon CA.
[00:40:31] Unknown:
And, Francis, how about you? And on Twitter,
[00:40:34] Unknown:
I'm at Francis, d e s l a u r. So that's Twitter. Yeah. And, yeah, so the picon c picon c on Twitter for for our group. And for potential sponsors, it's sponsorship@picon.ca. That's that would be the best way to reach us.
[00:40:54] Unknown:
Great. So with that, I will move us on into the picks. And my first pick this week is the Juice SSH Android application. So I work as a DevOps engineer for for my day job, and that involves being able to SSH into a lot of different servers. And I actually use SaltStack as my systems automation tool. So lately, I really only have the need to SSH into 1 server to be able to do everything I need. And having Deuce SSH handy on my tablet has proven helpful quite a number of times in the past few weeks. So I definitely wanna pick that because it's a pretty great SSH client. The paid version has a bunch of features like being able to hook into your EC 2 account so that it'll automatically pull in all of the nodes that you have there so you can SSH into them. And I'll leave it at that for this week. So, Chris, what do you have? That's very cool. Being able to use instance name sounds really, really handy. Gee, my iOS SSH client doesn't do that. I'm gonna have to make a feature request.
[00:41:52] Unknown:
So my first pick is a French trip hop group called Chinese Man. It's just really great sort of, like, you know, textural, lots of samples, really great lyrics, really interesting. Just love it. Go give it a listen. The next pick is a an urban fantasy book by Daniel O'Malley called Stiletto. I was a huge fan of his first book in the series called Rook, and this new 1 is just delicious. It's like it's the kind of book that I I picked up and started reading, and I'm like, I'm already halfway through it. I feel like I just started. So, if you like urban fantasy, this is basically a group called the Checkee, which is responsible for anything supernatural happening in Britain. And it's just it's really, really good stuff. My final pick for the day is the Amazon Echo. I bought 1, and I totally dig this thing. So we, you know, we listen to a lot of music around my house, and and I like to hear the news and things like that. And having something where you can just basically say, you know, Alexa, play blah blah blah, and have it just play is pure magic or listening to my morning news briefing while I do my exercises or whatever the case may be. And it plays podcasts, and it's it's just this really great surprisingly, it's it's an incredible utilitarian device in the category of the kind of thing that you didn't know would make your life measurably better until you have 1. And that's it for me for
[00:43:25] Unknown:
picks. So, Peter, how about you? I'll just give 1 shout out, something I just learned about, actually, at PyCon US. If anyone is interested in putting on an event but just can't kinda quite start thinking in terms of what has to happen, I love to direct people to the Jengocon US conference, has done a great job of putting together just a series of notes, documentation essentially of how they run their events. I found them really useful even for myself just to sort of remember, essentially lists of, a checklist of sort of what sorts of things need to be on your mind, if you're trying to organize something. And so if anyone's interested in organizing something, and just needs to kinda get their mind rooted, so what is some of the first items or what kinds of to dos might I, be assigning to volunteers, I definitely recommend people check that out. Github.com/jangocon/jangocon dash us dash doc.
[00:44:20] Unknown:
I find it rather unsurprising that a community organized around a project that is so well known for its documentation happens to have such great documentation for its conferences.
[00:44:31] Unknown:
And and what a gift to the community. Just to say that, you know, these folks have a lot of experience, and they've really kinda put it out there for all of us.
[00:44:38] Unknown:
And, Francis, what do you have for picks? So I have 1 pick is, Brian Scripps' book, Spamination. So I'm currently listening to the the audiobook, and I really love it. So it's a it's a book about, it's a study on how, cyber criminals are working and how spammers are working. It's really interesting to to understand how the actors are interacting with each other and, yeah, who who play what who plays what role. Really, really insightful.
[00:45:05] Unknown:
Francis, if you enjoyed that book, you might really like the Risky Business podcast. They interview Brian Krebs on a regular basis, and it's a great podcast. It's really entertaining.
[00:45:15] Unknown:
Oh, thank you. I'll look it up for sure. Sure.
[00:45:19] Unknown:
Well, I really appreciate the both of you taking time out of your day to join us and tell us more about the work you're doing with PyCon Canada, and perhaps I'll even be able to make it up this year. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much, Tobias. And thank you, Chris. Have a good night. Good night.
Introduction of Hosts and Guests
Francis' Introduction to Python
Peter's Introduction to Python
Organizing PyCon Canada
Audience and Presenters at PyCon Canada
Challenges of Conference Organization
Regional and Special Interest Conferences
Encouraging Diversity in Conference Speakers
Blind Review Process for Talk Submissions
Ensuring a Safe and Enjoyable Conference Experience
Logistical Challenges in Conference Organization
Sustainability in Conference Organization
Marketing and Theme of PyCon Canada
Favorite PyCon Canada Moments
Critical Information for Attending PyCon Canada 2016
Picks and Recommendations
