ZimboPy

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Your host as usual is Tobias Macy. And today I'm interviewing Marlene Mangami,

Mike Place and Ronald Maravanyika

about ZimboPy,

an organization that teaches women and girls in Zimbabwe how to program using Python. So, Marlene, could you start by introducing yourself?

Sure. Yes. My name is Marlene, and I take on the role as the programs,

director of ZindoPie.

So, basically, I just sort of hedge in general the day to day

sort of runnings of the organization.

Somebody else hit on me. I'm on the board of directors

of the Python Software Foundation,

and I I'm really interested in nonprofit work and and working with communities. And, Mike, can you introduce yourself?

Sure. My name is, Mike Place. I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah.

My day job,

I am the director of engineering at, SaltStack,

which,

many people may know as, being, 1 of the world's largest,

open source,

Python projects.

And, I am also,

on the board and work,

with Marlene

and Ronald on Symblpy.

So, Ronald, could you introduce yourself, please? Yeah. So

I started learning Python by incident, if I may say.

I was,

still a student,

and

I had to go for for internship.

So during my internship, we we had a problem with 1 of our databases that we were working on,

and,

we needed to design a whole new,

database.

So

I come from an engineering

background.

That is mechatronics.

So

not having enough experience in in in IT, I had to Google around.

And that's when I found out about,

Python.

And,

I got lucky and got a scholarship,

to start,

Python.

Soon after the scholarship

Yeah.

That was that. And, I just fell in love with, the Python community itself,

and that's why I'm still developing

with Python even now.

And going back to you, Marlene, do you remember how you first got introduced to Python?

Yes. I,

I remember,

actually, it was through Ron that I I got introduced to Python. I had been looking for

I I knew I wanted to start an initiative surrounding

girls and and technology, and I met Ron because I was looking for some programmers to sort of,

partner with to do

some workshops for girls, and I met Ron. And Ron

is a is a Python

enthusiast, so he sort of convinced me that the language was good. And,

we actually started off, you know, using the Django Girls curriculum,

and it was already, you know, a really simple curriculum to follow. And so that's that's basically actually how I how I got introduced to Python. And, Mike, do you remember how you got introduced to Python?

I do. I got introduced,

to Python,

as a a developer

first working on web applications,

which I did for a couple of years.

And then,

very early on, I started working with, Thomas Hatch, whom I think you know, I think you've interviewed in the very early days of, of SaltStack, and and we worked together on that. And,

I've been working on that and writing in Python, ever since then.

And so I'm wondering if you 1 of you can start by explaining what is the mission of Zimbopai.

Explain a bit about what the organization is and does and how it first got started.

So, yes, Zimbopai is an initiative

that aims to get Symblian girls interested in computer programming and, specifically,

programming in Python.

So the mission is is basically that to to get girls interested in computer programming from a young age and going on through

to university,

level as well.

How we got started was

so the all 3 of us,

have a passion for,

you know, empowering communities.

So on my end of it, I really wanted to see

Zimbabwean girls really have tools

to get into technology and to have a skill that I felt that they could use to maybe get ahead in the world. There's a lot of, gender inequality

in Zimbabwean culture sometimes as there is all over the world.

And, Mike, do you have anything else to add to that?

Sure. I,

became involved,

when, I traveled to Zimbabwe.

The community there was kind enough to invite me to keynote at their first ever,

PyCon in Harare.

And, I I met an amazing,

community of,

really, really smart, really, really passionate Python developers there.

And, I happen to be, sitting in the back of that conference, the last day that I was there.

And,

Ron got up and started talking about, his desire to teach Python to, to young girls,

in Zimbabwe.

And

when you were starting Zimbopie,

were there other languages that you considered beyond Python

for using in the curriculum?

And if so, what was your reason for ultimately choosing Python as the primary language to work with? Okay. So for Python, for us, it it wasn't an option really. There were no other languages for us. Because initially when we started, we were doing workshops

just like, the Jungle Girls workshop.

So

we followed through their way of doing things.

So we just decided to adapt with,

Python and Django. But what really made us stick with Python Python is, the fact that the Python community is

is very friendly, and it's it's big. People are willing to give you their time

for for free.

They're willing to help you for free.

So that's why we we release that to

to the,

Python community.

And in addition to

the pure programming aspects

of software engineering,

what other subject matter do you cover in the workshops? And also, if you can just describe a bit about how the workshops are structured

and what the overall experience is like for the women and girls who are, engaging with Symbopie.

Alright.

So

we have a really broad spectrum of,

of the way we do things. So firstly, we have,

the active community, which is,

the community centers.

So basically, what we do is, we have, a community center, which is just a building,

which is, which belongs to the local government. So

get girls, young girls, teenagers, and then they come into our community center. So

we teach them every week the from the basics of Python. Then after they are comfortable with the basics of Python, we then move on to the website development,

side of things. That's where we start. From the from the web development, we move on to the Raspberry Pi where we do various,

small projects with with,

with the Raspberry Pi.

We also do a bit of, data analysis,

but that's

at an advanced level now. So the other group that we have is we work with, universities.

So with universities, what we do is,

we call it the ment the mentorship week.

So what we try to do is we we get developers

to come and help out with,

projects

that,

the student that are build on. For example, the last 1 that we had, which was in in in October, if if I'm not October or November, if I'm not mistaken. We had the girls working on, very interesting projects. 1 of the interesting projects was,

the 1 they created,

an OpenCV

application

where,

they could identify

how many people are in a camera

through through through the the the use of the Raspberry Pi. We also did some data analysis for

use in in,

insurance companies.

The case study there was was the Titanic, basically, to say in the Titanic who was most likely to to to die. That was just the basics of using data

data analysis.

We had a couple of guys from from

from a European company called, Sentebo.

They came to help us with that. Yeah. So there are a lot of projects that that we we work on. They and and they're in different sections. It's not we are just not, sticking to to 1 section. But for the advanced girls, those that are university,

we are trying to move away from work development because,

a lot is being covered in that area. So we are we are moving to other areas,

such as the use of the Raspberry Pi data analysis,

stuff like that. So really depends with,

the mentor that we get.

And how do you

advertise

to the communities that you're serving that,

Zimbo Pi is available as an option for them, and how do you get the women and girls interested in taking part in your workshops?

Right. Yeah. So it's it's been really

very easy for us because,

as soon as we started, we

we build our websites, then we advertise through our Facebook page. Students were already interested, and,

we were getting students through parents

and,

high schools.

So, basically, a teacher will come in and say,

I heard you. You have a workshop.

I have,

so much number of kids that I want them to join your your program.

We we only have a few computers, so we

we grade the students. Basically, we are we are choosing for for the girls that that are really good at math and,

who are in the science subject

to if if if I may say.

So

the advertising itself is basically social media

and,

the world of mouth itself. The marketing part of it, it's it's not really a struggle,

because

already students, they're interested,

when they heard, about the program.

Are there any aspects of running and managing Zimbo Pi both from the logistical

aspect and also or any, technological aspects of it that you have found to be challenging?

So I think for us, some of,

you know, some of the major issues

that we faced have been maybe trying to coordinate with the girls in terms of their schedules and to also coordinate. We work a lot with local government,

and so

it's really difficult to coordinate the 2 because the girls,

most of their curriculum in school has just

shifted. And so sometimes

having

to work with

their schedules from school, and then also working with

our local government offices

and trying to make sure that they know when we'll be

using the community centers and for how long. That's been

a serious challenge for us sometimes, but overall it's

been okay. Something we also faced was

really just having the girls starting from scratch and knowing that the majority of the girls that come to our

our coding clubs will have never, you know, touched a computer before in their lives and won't have access to a computer

at home. And so those are are some things that we struggle with in terms of,

you know, helping the girls be consistent in terms of learning and remembering

what we've we've taught them because they don't usually have the ability to maybe go back home

and and practice there. So all the learning has to be done in the center. So,

sometimes that's challenging.

Yeah. So just like as, Marlene was

saying, programming, it's it's

it becomes a way of life for for you to catch it.

Yeah. You can just get into

the community center, learn some stuff and not practice,

and expect to to

to be able to be perfect on that. So

besides,

the that that fact,

financially,

of course, we we are not a big organization.

So financially, we

were still struggling.

So

dealing with that fact of,

financial struggle

and,

being able to to

take the girls into another level

because we we would want to to get to a level where we

we we can

open the community center such that if if a girl is interested in

in working

on a project, they can just come in the commencing center and work on that.

And

programming mostly

needs Internet

because you need to Google,

some simple things. You

the mentor is not always there to

to

help you through.

So,

of course, we we need Internet, and we have been trying to to coordinate with local,

companies that, have Internet,

but, we are still struggling on that.

Yeah. Otherwise,

pretty much in this

aspects of, running Symbl Pie,

I think those are the the the the major challenges.

Oh, 0, sorry. Also,

we we are still building the the curriculum, so need some some help,

putting in more content on on the curriculum,

which is, hosted at,

GitHub.

So I'd welcome people who want to to contribute

to to the curriculum.

Alright. And I'll add a link to that in the show notes so that anybody can,

go there and if they have any

ideas on contributions,

they can go ahead and submit them. Cool. Thank you. And you mentioned that 1 of the challenges

is in terms of the

financial support. So I'm wondering if you can speak a bit

to how Zimbapai is funded and any plans that you have to ensure future sustainability.

So

we've been,

applying for for grants and, partnerships.

So

at the moment, we

are in partnership with, GitHub. They they were 1 of our first corporate

sponsor.

We

also

get,

donations from,

developers

who are interested in the in the in the in the project.

So we go to different,

PyCon conferences.

And from there, that's where we we get,

connections and,

links to developers that may be interested in in funding the project.

Then also ourself,

we

we we we sell,

Zimbopai products.

Of later, I've been hearing a lot of people

really

interested,

in our T shirts because of our logo.

So we we we sell T shirts.

We also try to do fundraising,

programs

so that we can help ourselves with,

the sustainability.

But in terms of,

the future,

we really need to,

be established

probably in the states because that's where most of our our, funding coming from.

But, the

the challenge now is the fact that,

our country is under,

the there's a data sanctions.

So under these sanctions, a company which is in America cannot,

cannot fund

us directly.

So if ourself can we if we can be able to to to get registered

in the States

or get a big

non profit,

let's say,

Oxfam. They already work in the in the in the in the community.

So if you can get a company

like Oxfirm, which is willing to receive funds

and then, channel the funds to ourselves,

that can be able to to help us in terms of, sponsorships.

So what we mean is when we go to conferences,

every time we speak,

our partner, they they they will be having our logo on on, our presentations.

Then we are also in partnership with, the Python Zimbabwe community.

So they've allowed us to

put in

marketing material for

for our sponsors

in in their rooms.

So

in terms of

our future plans to to help us ourselves with

sustainability,

I think that's that's our main plan with sustainability.

And then,

to also reduce costs, we are going to be inputting back

the girls that would have finished through the program. So they will just come in

and, teaching those,

who are coming in as the new group.

So so that it it remains a cycle because currently, as we speak, we we we pay the person

who will be mentoring the girls through through the program. So in terms of the future,

mainly, that's that's that's our plan.

And in terms of having

the, corporate entity for being able to receive funds, have you looked at all into the work that Open Collective is doing and whether that would work for your situation?

Not really. I I haven't really looked through,

the open entity,

how they they they do it. But,

when when when the there's a there are sanctions, what they say is,

they shouldn't fund certain people who are under sanctions. But the only problem with that is these people were under sanction. They owned companies that owned companies that owned companies. So

for an organization to fund us, they should have

a complete

a complete documentation to say that these people are not linked

whatsoever

to to the people who are under sanctions. So

that's that's only where the challenge is.

And,

Mike, you were starting to say before how

your

main involvement

is with helping in terms of offering mentorship. So I'm wondering if you can speak a bit about that aspect

of the Zimbo Pi organization

and some of the ways that the community can help with offering mentoring and also just how the, mentoring structure functions.

Sure. I'd be happy to. There are 2 main ways, that mentors can participate,

in our program.

We have mentorship weeks. We hold them a couple of times a year, and it's when a group of girls will come together for about a week of intensive study,

and often to work on a collective project together. Now,

we pair them up, with, mentors, some of whom come in, remotely via video conference

and, some of whom are there on-site.

So there are opportunities for people who wish to travel,

to Zimbabwe

and spend a week,

working directly,

with our teams there, and there are opportunities for people who might just have, an hour or 2 during the day and want to,

contribute

to the project. It doesn't take too much to, to participate,

remotely.

We we spend a little bit of time getting people prepared, and then,

we, just,

we set them up with, with small groups of girls,

and they work, they work together through some sets of problems or they work together on the project. Now, of course, as Ron said, there are also more traditional,

open source opportunities. If you go to the zimbopi GitHub page, you'll see places where, people who want to contribute can also help us write documentation,

things of that nature. So, yeah, it's pretty straightforward. If somebody wants to become a a mentor, all they need to do is, head on over,

to the Symblpy web page, and, there's a inquiry form there. Once they fill it out, somebody on our team will get back to them and, and we'll help them find a place and time that they can and,

the and, the ways that they have been able to benefit from their time with Zimbopai?

South Urban is relatively

new. We've been running for maybe about a year and a half, close to 2 years. So

I would say that we still are working with the same group that we started with and,

except maybe for the mentorship. But overall, we've really seen,

some of the girls that have attended maybe our mentorship week have really said that the program has,

inspired them to continue

working hard, you know, and and pursue computer science. So a lot of the girls maybe will I think there's,

there's a Python programming coding club on campus at 1 of the universities that we did a a mentorship week with. And as a result of that, I think, a good number of all of the girls that attended our mentorship

session have joined that Taipan programming club and are actually the only girls that are part of that, programming club. So I think it's it's really a testament to show that, you know, we really initially did pique the interest of the girls. And so they're really engaging with the community on campus. They're not being intimidated

by maybe not the the guys that are there in the same, space. But I think it's just feedback

from the professors that we've worked with in terms of, the girls improving and and their interest levels in class in, you know, their their day to day school activities being heightened because of the program. And then I would say, you know, the girls are just excited to be there at the in the community center. They really they message us all the time and are asking when, you know, we're gonna meet and and want to meet regularly. So I think that is also just a company that's good, and they have built, you know, small things, not huge projects in the community center club. But, yeah, we're we're really excited at the progress that we're making. At the moment, it's a bit premature to see that because they're all still in university, but hopefully hopefully soon.

For anybody who is interested

in replicating the type of work that you're doing for your community in Zimbabwe

and their own local communities, is there any particular advice that you can give to them?

I think I would say for for anyone that's looking to

do something similar

that,

you know, a major thing is

focusing, I would say, on on creating, not just looking at

the programming aspect, I think,

you know, as we as we talked about before, but

also trying to make sure that

you build community and that the the the girls that are in your

program feel like they are,

they have a sisterhood and that they

are connected and that they can come to you for advice.

I think that's a major

part of making

the girls keep

that that makes the the girls that are in the program keep coming back.

So I would say focusing on that a lot is a good thing and,

you know, especially, you know, in in Africa, I would say,

not letting,

you know, difficult circumstances

stand in your way. Sometimes we

been faced by with a lot of,

technical problems or just lack of resources.

And I would say in those cases to try and be as creative as you can and also

try and and be as laid back as possible

with some of those situation.

But, yeah, I think if if the focus is just building community, making sure

that your students are enjoying

the program,

then then I think you you would be successful with that.

So if you could each add your preferred contact information to the show notes, and I'll move this into the pics. And so this week, I'm going to choose a library called Qlik from Armin Ronneker, which is a

library for making it easier to build composable command line applications.

So I've been playing around with that a little bit lately and enjoying that, and it's been getting a lot of positive reviews. So for anybody who is looking to build that kind of an application,

it's definitely worth checking out. And so with that, I appreciate you all taking the time out of your day to join me and work through the technical difficulties that we had recording

And, tell me about the work you've been doing with Zimbo Pi. Yeah. It's definitely a very interesting project that you're working with, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you so much for for having us.

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